How could a loving God...? 04.18.2007
I think I’ve decided that Ken Ham must be one of the most depressed Christians ever. I’m going to keep a running SADNESS COUNTER.
Also, I love the banner at the Answers in Genesis site:
Dinosaurs of the world unite! Wake from your crimson dream and claim back these fallen lands!
How desperate does a man have to be to further his own agenda to use something like the VT shootings a mere couple days later? I mean, seriously. What the hell?
Today we have yet another sad reminder of the fact that we live in a fallen, cursed world: news headlines (Monday) that, in the worst school shooting in U.S. history, 32 people have been murdered (and 15 injured).
SADNESS COUNTER: 1.
Although this marks the worst school shooting incident in U.S. history, sadly it is not the first involving the loss of several lives.
SADNESS COUNTER: 2.
When such terrible acts occur (and sadly, random violence is occurring more frequently these days), they become the major topic of conversation on news and talk show programs. Quite often, church leaders are asked by reporters to give an explanation as to how someone can believe in a loving God when we see such tragedies happen.
SADNESS COUNTER: 3. Mostly, though, evangelists can’t wait to use terrible acts to promote their own agenda like the communal habitation of dinosaurs and antelope — I mean, they’re doing God’s work. If God didn’t want dinosaurs and antelope to live together, He wouldn’t have put them on His Earth.
Sadly, when it comes to what people would call “natural evil” (e.g., earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, etc.), I’ve heard many Christian leaders on television make statements such as: “We don’t know why such things occur-we just have to have faith-and we just have to trust God.” When it comes to “moral evil,” such as a person shooting fellow human beings, I’m sure most of these leaders would say that it was because of sin. However, if really pushed, many (just like the secular world), would not take all of Genesis 1-11 as literal history.
SADNESS COUNTER: 4. I wouldn’t say it was because of sin. I would say it was because the dude was batshit psycho insane. The last sentence also verges incredibly close to a non sequitor. The barest of threads link it to the rest of the paragraph. If that paragraph was a person, that last sentence is a giant booger swinging out of the left nostril, hanging out by the thinnest strands of snot; it is a slimy Spiderman ejaculated in a desperate attempt to land that yellow-grennish ooze anywhere — somewhere — that might stick.
There’s an inconsistency here in taking Genesis literally to accept sin to explain moral evil, such as the shootings at Virginia Tech, but not taking Genesis literally in their acceptance of millions of years of “natural evil” before man (e.g., death, violence, catastrophe, and extinction > of animals).
NOOOOOO THE DINOSAURS YOU BASTARDS. When someone talks about sin, I highly doubt they conjure in their head the scene where Adam smiles sheepishly with the sweet juice of knowledge and says “The bitch made me do it.” No. It is entirely possible to accept the concept of sin without accepting the concept of forbidden fruit and everything else in Genesis that’s listed in meticulously vague detail.
You see, when we accept Genesis as it was meant to be taken-as literal history-then we understand that death, disease, and violence are intrusions into this world, and that they occurred after Adam was created.
Then we also understand that God took a rib from Man, and created Woman. And Man said “Ow” and Woman said “Take it like a Man” and Man said “You bitch” and Woman said “You asshole” and the Serpant said “Shit, this is going to be sweet!”
So, it’s not God’s fault that there is death and violence in the world-it’s humanity’s fault, because we rebelled against our Creator. Certainly, the shooter at Virginia Tech has to answer for his own sin. However, we still have to recognize that we now live in a fallen world where we have just a taste of what we really asked for in Adam, when the head of the human race disobeyed God’s instruction not to eat the fruit of one particular tree. In a real sense, we are all responsible for the death and suffering we see around us.[/quote]
Well, no. In a real sense — the real sense, as in what really happened, as in reality, as in if you get your head out of the loony cloud, a psycho man killed lots of people because he was disturbed and insane and accidentally ate grapefruit instead of orange and if you’ve ever done that and experienced the sudden wash of bitterjuice rather than the sweet citrus scent of orange, you’d know rage too.
Because, in a sense, we are all descended from Adam, and he too knew the feeling of eating grapefruit instead of orange so really, we are all aware of that rage, of that seething hatred of denied fruit. We are all sinners.
But sometimes, just sometimes, we bite down on a grapefruit and wince our eyes in pain, and we don’t grab a couple of guns and shoot everything in sight. Why? Because we are not batshit crazy insane. We simply turn towards the Eve’s in all of our lives and say ‘Bitch, where’s my orange.”
We all might have sin. We are not all psycho.
Only the person who believes in God has a basis to make moral judgments to determine what is “good” and what is “bad.” Those who claim God does not exist have absolutely no authority upon which to call something right or wrong. If God doesn’t exist, who can objectively define what is good and what is bad? What basis could there be to make such judgments? The atheist has no basis upon which to call anything good or bad. They can talk about good and bad, and right and wrong-but it’s all relative, it’s all arbitrary. What’s “good” in one person’s mind might be completely “bad” in another’s.
This is what we in the heathen arts of science call “a fucking stupid premise”. The easy answer is that there is no objective definition of good and evil. All judgments of good and evil are moralistic judgments. There’s also no such thing as “natural evils”, because if it’s natural, then by definition it’s neither evil nor good but simply there. It is. It exists. If God exists, He wants it to happen. And if He is the ultimate arbiter of good and evil, then only He can say if a natural even is evil.
So until God plucks you by the ear and says “Yo, Ham, that hurricane was seriously unrighteous, man. Spread the word. I had a bunch of tacos last night and I passed some seriously evil wind.”, that hurricane is just a hurricane. It’s not evil until God says it’s evil.
Of course, from a biblical perspective, God must have morally good and just reasons as to why He allows bad things to happen. For instance, Christ’s death on the Cross was an evil event, but God allowed this for a wonderful purpose: to redeem sinful human beings.
I’m still waiting for the morally good and just reason he allowed this to happen at VT. And if you say “to show us the frailty of life and the wages of our sins”, I’m going to punch you in the face and transfer some of my sin to you.
We live in an era when public high schools and colleges have all but banned God from science classes.
One cannot ban that which is omnipresent. Oh, you mean ban the word of God. It’s okay. Just think of biology as a natural evil. Evil perhaps, but necessary. Like what your wife thought of your wedding night. Oh, zing!
Naturalism (in essence, atheism) has become the religion of the day
I’m not at all saying that the person who committed these murders at Virginia Tech was driven by a belief in millions of years or evolution.
Good, ‘cause then you’d be crazy. Except you are suggesting it. You said:
The more such a philosophy permeates the culture, the more we would expect to see a sense of purposelessness and hopelessness that pervades people’s thinking. In fact, the more a culture allows the killing of the unborn, the more we will see people treating life in general as “cheap.”
So in other words, you think Cho killed so many people because he looked back at those millions of years and thought “shit, the DINOSAURS CRY FOR REVENGE. REVENGE!”
I don’t know why this person did what he did, except the obvious: that it was a result of sin.
If everybody has sin, then everything everybody does is influenced by sin. Everybody has sin therefore everybody does evil therefore everybody has sin. Yeah, that doesn’t work for me.
However, when we see such death and violence, it is a reminder to us that without God’s Word (and the literal history in Genesis 1-11), people will not understand why such things happen.
HE WAS BATSHIT CRAZY INSANE! What you really want to say is that without God’s Word and the literal history of Genesis, people will understand regardless and you’ll be out of a job.
There is another important lesson we need to be reminded of in the context of suffering and death in this world. In Luke 13:4-5, Jesus said: “Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
Jesus was reminding people that every person will one day die, and that they need to be ready! Those who were killed by this tower in Luke 13 didn’t know that when they arose that morning, it would be their day to die. The Lord Jesus, in saying “unless you repent,” was reminding everyone that they needed to be sure they were ready to face eternity.
Actually, I think Jesus was saying that unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
This is the most important lesson for all of us to consider during this tragic time in American history, and to be reminded of what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 10:9: That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
I will not orally pleasure Zombie Jesus!